Why a true European blogosphere is not emerging yet (Nicole Simon)
November 24th, 2009
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36 comments à “Why a true European blogosphere is not emerging yet (Nicole Simon)”
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It’s just not true that there is no European blogosphere. It’s true that there is no real pan-European (transnational blogosphere), but there is a steadily growing European blogosphere with almost 500 blogs as you can see here:
http://www.bloggingportal.eu/
You have different nationalities writing in English and other European language, you have inter-blog cooperation and you have also some blogs that try to link and connect to the national blogospheres.
So it’s not that bad, although it could be much, much better…
Jean-Yves thanks for putting that up, I am happy to see that the sound was way better than expected.
Julien, I disagree with your link. That is a list of blogs, but not the sense of ‘blogosphere’ we know from the US. If some bloggers or yours do connect to local bloggers, it does not have the impact like for example the mommy bloggers would have I mention.
The sense of being european as well as connected is something which has to emerge and – surprisingly to many – has also to be formed when being there in person.
To stay with the example of Ebe where this was recorded: there was a huge huge crowd, and I would call that a blogosphere in the way they reacted with one another. Though it is a spanish blogosphere and only very few of them are connecting out to Europe or beyond. Which is why people like myself, or Jean-Yves or (next video) Luca Conti where there.
To start to seed these things to have – as you call it – a pan-european blogosphere. Over the last year I have seen these small steps, like Germans finally starting to get out of the country and the language and moving also to events at least in Europe. Only once we do have those strong voices talking in a language we all understand we will have a true discussion – and that is (no offense) not going to be on one dedicated website with some articles in it.
)
@ Nicole, so what is a true bloggosphere like? The Eurobloggosphere is not limited to bloggingportal.eu . Eurobloggers already interact, collectively promote issues on the public agenda, launch common campaigns (see http://www.genderbalancedcommission.eu ) , feel connected to one another by common values and even meet up whenever they have the opportunity too!
@Julien Frisch I take your point about the difference between European and pan-European blogosphere. But only ’cause I understand it, as I’m based in Brussels.
I know there is a community which speaks louder on the web, people working/living around the European institutions. I consider myself as one of them.
Take http://www.bloggingportal.eu, then. A very nice federating initiative, much needed I would say. But look at the mainest topics here http://www.bloggingportal.eu/reader/topics : “Lisbon Treaty”" (891 posts), Britain and the EU (330), etc. Hardly day to day issues much discussed by the average European in Madrid, Hamburg, or Warsaw…
There is a rising blogosphere speaking about the EU. That’s right.
However, their will be an actual European blogosphere only when, tomorrow maybe, people excited about cars, innovation in companies, olive oil cooking, will interact with each others no matter if they are in Portugal, Belgium or Danmark. When they won’t even think about it anymore.
I say European, not “pan-European”, on purpose.
@That was the good surprise, wih the sound, indeed
@ Eurosocialiste
I agree with you that we are seeing a more active community in the capital city of Europe, that gives expression on the web. The gender petition you mention in certainly among those noticeable new initiatives. Though, I would like to know what is the proportion of non-Brussels residents within the 860 signatures raised so far…
There is still a long way to go. Look at EuropaTweets (http://europatweets.eu/) for instance, launched by a friend of mine at the European Parliament, more than 6 months ago. Quatremer, the famous French blogger/journalist you know, told about it on Twitter only today… That’s unfortunate. Right, it is a first step…
First, the http://www.bloggingportal.eu is not just a list of blogs, it is a joint project of a dozen of bloggers who gather blogs on European topics, tag posts, and promote good articles from these posts for the front page.
We are not limited to euroblogs, we also add blog posts on European topics from the national spheres to our overall feed, and those often get promoted to the front page, too. This is not meant to be the one dedicated website where people go, it is trying to aggregate and filter a growing number of blogs and posts on European issues, because the sphere is getting big enough to make it hard to follow. So we try to ease the search for interesting new articles and we thus provide the basis for future direct interaction.
There has been the “Think About It!” project with bloggers from all 27 member states blogging about the European Parliament elections, and although this project was financed by the European Commission, it was a point of reference for a wider blogosphere existing without this project.
In addition, there are especially Spanish and French blogs that are both part of the euroblogosphere and of their national blogospheres, and I as a German blogger try to interact with the German blogosphere whenever I can. And bloggers like the Netzpolitik crowd are working together with French and other European/national bloggers on topics regarding the free internet, ACTA etc.
But there is also a true transnational human dimension to this: I am German, and I have been moving around in my private and professional life already. But earlier this year I was invited to speak with local/regional Hungarian journalists about how to get information on EU subjects, and I got recommended to do so by a Hungarian newspaper editor who follows euroblogs. I met a Hungarian interpreter there who also blogs – and so we got a full circle of online and real-life interaction just because the euroblogosphere exists.
And yes, I can only follow eurosocialiste and point to the Gender Balanced Commission campaign that some of the Eurobloggers just jointly organised within 3-4 days and that grow big enough within two weeks to have more fans on Facebook (from all over the EU) than the European Parliament President – which is still not too much but a sign that there is a growing sense of connectedness and the ability to set up real life action and echo in national media thanks to pan-European cooperation of bloggers.
Parallely, we are still discussing how to get to the stage where there is a European Blog Discourse that goes beyond what we have now – but it is already pretty pan-European with active eurobloggers coming from Brussels, Germany, Spain, Finland, France, the UK, Hungary, Poland etc.
But I agree, in a united Europe this sphere it needs to become larger, and needs to move beyond the point where there are rather separated national spheres, a rather national euroblogosphere with only a few connections. But I feel that especially Twitter has changed a lot already – speeding up the process -, and we’ll get closer to this aim quicker than some might expect.
@ Jean-Yves
I think that the existence of a growing political euroblogosphere is one of the conditions for the development of a larger European political blogosphere.
In some ways those who blog about all-European issues are slowly starting to connect or at least enrich the national political blogospheres, getting information from the national level to a European level and from there back to the national levels. And if we get more editors for the bloggingportal with knowledge of different EU languages it will be much easier to really connect political debates from all or most member states and to see the aspects that are more national, transnational, or European.
[And yes, I can only speak about the political blogospheres because I am a political blogger, and have no ideas how pan-European communication on cars is going on - I suppose this is happening already in specialised fora (although I have no idea).]
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by JeanYves: Posted: “Why a tru European blogosphere is not emerging yet” (video with @nicolesimon) http://bit.ly/8qmYDn...
@ Jean-Yves regarding the proportion of people living in Belgium among the people who support the gender balanced commission initiative, we can not tell for the petition because it’s simply not information we asked for, but we can tell for our Facebook page. Just 16% of the Facebook page fans are living in Belgium. Not too bad, don’t you think?
As much as I appreciate the work of Eurosocialiste and Julien – as well as John Worth and European Citizen and Nosemonkey and others – and believe they are pioneers, I find myself in complete disagreement with their opinion regarding the emergence of a European blogosphere.
You guys are shaping a political transnational connection of bloggers on topics, dilemmas and questions surrounding the European Union. It may be sweet to go by the name of Eurobloggers and help our identification and feeling of identity, but it’s quite pretentious to deduce the existence of a European blogosphere from that.
For that it would take, I guess, hundreds of people who consciously decide to blog in a language other than their own on European aspects of themes that are relevant not only on European level (both within and beyond the Union), but also locally, regionally and/or nationally. Those themes, I daresay, would need to go far beyond institutionally relevant topics.
But here I have my doubts, so let me ask a question in the next comment:
Do we really want and need a European blogosphere?
Or are we hoping and waiting for something that will not come to exist?
Nicole has touched upon some aspects in the interview – the absence of a media bias, or the absence of an awareness about existing biases; the lack of a common language; the lack of a political framework with felt and appreciated direct relevance for individuals.
While I find it really frustrating, at times, to be continously lonely as a blogger on European non-formal education, I don’t necessarily wish for a blogosphere around that topic. What I do wish for is an online community around that topic. Whether that is on Twitter or on Xing, whether it happens through forums or blogs – I really don’t mind that so much.
Have we already missed the right time for a blogosphere?
Booooooooo!!
There’s no European blogosphere?
I personally know both of the commenters on here so far – how’s that for a european blogosphere?
I’ve known Julien Frisch for over a year now. I’ve met him in real life, am often exchanging comments with him and have recorded podcasts with him on http://www.chasingbrussels.eu
I help to edit http://www.bloggingportal.eu with Eurosocialiste – and (if I’m not wrong) she was in Spain recently, meeting up with http://www.jonworth.eu and other eurobloggers.
Maybe there is no european blogosphere (sometimes called the euroblogosphere – but also now being called the eurosphere). But we are developing a community of eurobloggers. The most active group is small (I would estimate about two or three dozen, maybe?) but more people are joining all the time – and the larger, less integrated euroblogosphere is hundreds (as the blogginportal.eu list shows).
Yes – it’s mostly based on European politics, but I would not say it’s a pro-EU group (although some definitely are). I would say it’s more “pro-European” than “pro-EU.”
Anyway – we don’t just talk about politics! Why is it that we’re not a real blogosphere unless we’re talking about cars and mommies?
Oh, and a good example: The discussion in this blog post has been taken up on a Spanish-language blog saying that it will be impossible for blogs that only write in minor EU-languages to be included in a euroblogosphere.
I reacted (in Spanish) with an example: Earlier this week, a Hungarian blog that only writes in Hungarian cited an article of me in a post on the choice of van Rompuy for European Council President. Since I now get traffic from this blog I can go there and get a Google translation of the post to understand the main points and the tone. Finally, I have now mentioned this article in two comments, one in a Spanish language post and the other here, making it part of a pan-European discussion.
In addition, I added the post to the feed of the bloggingportal, which makes it accessible for everyone else.
[...] is a response to German blogger Nicole Simon’s video interview about why she thinks a European blogosphere is not emerging. I have commented on her interview, but [...]
Now that comment from yesterday evening has been published, let me add another facet:
First, I agree with all of you who write that there is no European blogosphere on a wide range of issues. There is also no large and highly connected European blogosphere in which news spread quicker than in the traditional media.
Yet, the first misunderstanding is the idea that there is something like a coherent blogosphere. Usually, those interacting on certain topics discuss among themselves, about shared problems and topics of interest. Rarely do the connect to other sub-networks of blogs discussing about other issues.
So speaking about a European blogosphere is as wrong as it is to talk about coherent national blogospheres. It is also not appropriate to compare the European blogosphere to the American blogosphere – not just because Europe and the US are different (there are no common European media a European blogosphere could react to) – because the national blogospheres are much less developed than the American one.
So why is it still worth noting that a Euroblogosphere of EU geeks has developed and why is it possible to call this a possible nucleus of a European blogosphere:
a) Politics covers all areas of human communication and thus of interest of bloggers of different specialisation. Discussing European politics means to discuss political issues relevant not just in one member state but for all 500 million citizens. Having an informed debate about these topics can be a point of reference for bloggers that consider themselves national bloggers, while Eurobloggers can and should take up topics relevant on the national level(s) and help bringing them up on the European level.
b) Even the Euroblogosphere is big enough now that it is impossible to follow everything. Yes, there is a core of more active and more interactive bloggers, but this seems to be the case in most blogospheres. The fact that this group has been growing, especially thanks to the increased direct interaction on Twitter, showes that we have probably entered into a phase of increasing specialisation, with certain bloggers concentrating on meta-debates while subgroups will rather enter into more policy-related debates.
c) In my previous comments I have also shown that there are already interactions between “national” blogs who share the same interest, that national blogs react to the Euroblogosphere and that this happens in different languages.
Yes, I know that all this sounds overly optimistic, but my opinion is based on the observation of the developments in the Euroblogosphere (in connection with the spreading debates on Twitter) over the last 18 months.
But we will have to continue to foster the Europeanisation of the blogosphere(s), and I will try to use the re:publica conference in Berlin in April, where there will also be the BOBs, the biggest international blog awards with bloggers from different spheres to get us a bit further in this whole debate.
@eurosocialiste
And now, I’m a fan of the group too
Doesn’t it tell more about the power of Facebook, however, on specific actions ?
What about a regular news and engagement feed about European stuff followed from all around Europe, with contributions from people in 27 member states ?
Just being “l’avocat du diable”, here…
Julien’s last comment brings us closer to the core of the debate and thankfully a little bit away from initial defensive reactions.
To my mind, it just seems wrong to use the term European blogosphere for what essentially is a transnational EU-geekosphere.
It’s also a little bit dismissive, as I have argued over on Joe’s blog, of other strongholds of transnational online networks in Europe, such as Café Babels excellent online community of multilingual blogs.
The most recent map of the European blogosphere over at Linkfluence shows how much diversity there is already. In fact, the authors claim that a “true Eurosphere has emerged on the social web.”
In the image linked to below, extracted from their report, you have
blue dots for communities of political bloggers and portals,
green dots for communities of journalists and experts,
red dots for communities of political pundits commenting on public issues without a clear or distinctive party line,
orange dots for media websites,
purple dots for trade unions,
light blue dots for think tanks,
grey dots for institutions, NGOs and activists.
Image of the European blogosphere by Linkfluence
If a European blogosphere exists, than it has many dots and many nuclei!
Nicole: I see your analysis influenced by the typical American simplicity, naivety, and ignorance about everything else outside US borders.
Never considered multilingualism? Multiculturalism? Different ways of social interactions? Which imply different uses, needs, and impacts of the internet.
You cannot use the same parameters of a flat, simple, straight, culturally poorer country like the US, for Europe, or for African, or Asian Countries.
The World is not the US, and the problem of not understanding it, is mainly for the US.
WAKE UP!
Paolo,
I think Nicole is German, not American.
But anyway, the US is not simple or culturally poor!
Nicole gave a good analysis of the state of the European blogosphere – some of us disagree, but I don’t think she’s naive or ignorant.
Joe
Paolo, calm down, Nicole is quite awake.
Isn’t GlobeCorp.biz an example of the European blogosphere?
Shouldn’t we talk about the occidental blogosphere or the anglosphere (as we are talking in English)?
[Excuse moi for not answering, I need to finish some projects and it is a discussion I really am interested in]
@Paolo: I only speak German and Englisch and I am not going to be the same level of fluent ever in other languages. In reality, I want a babelfish. As that is not going to happen, we need fo find a common language, which for western europe _is_ english. Not american mind you.
And I do not intend to have a similar thing as in the US, I quite cherish that European diversity. Every time I meet a European (and we do speak english) I feel much more at home because of a commom background, culture and understanding. But when it comes to a European thinking, it is not enough to think in small little boxes of countries.
Julien, why does a blogosphere should only consist on topics of politics and gender stuff? The usual academics thinking I might add.
Let me put it different: The moment Moltrin did make a bad campaign towards moms, it took the mommybloggers like 2 days to get an apology of the company and a public media storm, worldwide. Other companies have felt the sting of what it means to be connected in the online and also real world.
There is an impact (and it is not just based on the US it is just that the numbers are higher). If you look at Foodbloggers, you do have a Foodie-Scene which is highly connectect. There are other examples.
Those of course you have in Germany and other countries as well – but always always on a _local language level_ and only occasionally with an outreach to other countries. To make something happen on the European side it is easier to get to the anglosphere bloggers with reach and transport the message back. That should tell you something.
Before I went to Ebe, I knew there must be bloggers in Spain, and they where there, hundreds of them. I only ever see 2-5 specific people on the European level.
Since I was there I know why there was a huge laughter and applaud for Flapa – everybody else knew before about that. Because there is a _sense of a spanish blogosphere_. Outside of Spain? Flapa is only known maybe to spanish speaking people.
Ask yourself if you want to spread an information – do you do this in German, Italien, Spanish or whatever? No you don’t. You do that in the language more people can understand, which in Europes case is english [and that has nothing to do with the UK or Ireland].
Specific simple examples like the bloggingportal.eu or GlobeCorpbiz are single sites and I doubt their effect if they really want to put something in motion. The mentioned example of Netzpolitik in German (net politics) with specifically Markus Beckedahl, that _is_ an influential blog. If Netzpolitik calls for action, people do follow. Though that of course will only be in German. Which is fine for the German market, but to get to a bigger level …
The image under
http://us.linkfluence.net/blog/2009/11/20/first-map-of-the-eurosphere/
reflects exactly that: It is in the specififc countries (the big blue bubbles) but not across europe or the countries. Again, this is more specific to special European politic stuff, which is only one of many topics.
Ramon and the Belgians going for a web mission – that is building up trust between the blogospheres and help shape the European sense, international events like Ebe (in the future when it is more english), Leweb, Reboot, Sime, DLD, next10 to state the ones from a more business / technology point will do that.
Looking at ars technica and the 26c3 in Berlin (but only in a limited way Republica) for a more hacker / cultural side – all those events bring Europeans together and a sense to work with one another, share information, work on the same ideas but with a european sense in the background.
Which is why I love when people like at Ebe specifically invite foreigners, yet Europeans. It needs to start somewhere if we ever want to be able to have something what I would call a European Blogosphere – not just a technical collection of blogs.
And I stay by my opinion, that it is not necessary to write all the time in english, it is much better to go into local languages – but for real effective communication, just like on the comments here – it is not going to be another langauge than english.
Thank you for taking the time to post that, Nicole – that was very interesting.
Thanks for having elaborated on that, Nicole.
Fathers of Europe used to say that the European community, and latter European Union, was build on very concrete projects (Coal & Steel European Community, Internal market, Commun currency, and so forth) rather than on idealistic ideas.
I think the rise of a European blogosphere will once occur based on the same principles. People from Europe won’t communicate on the web in answer for a call for more European talk and hugging but because they will feel the need to share on specific experiences and regards based on a set of common feelings and interest. And because they will look for broader markets than their tight national home.
That’s why the mention of an initiative like EBE in Sevilla is very relevant, I think. We were there wiith the webmission of Belgian startups (http://www.betagroup.be/2009/11/20/betagroup-webmission-is-back-from-sevilla/), discussing with Spanish, Italian, German peers. We felt deeply European, there, and we communicated about it on the Net.
Cannot agree more.
Think Global, Act Local.
Global implies English (please stop wasting time trying to change that. It’s a matter of fact, period).
Local implies applying something to the local community using local context and local language.
So if you blog about a global issue? Do it in English (even with mistakes! Who cares? Most American bloggers will probably do even more mistakes than you do)
If you blog about how the Spanish government will address the real estate crisis, do it in Spanish.
Now if you wanna blog about the future of Belgium and BHV, ideally you should do it in English as well.
The most unpleasant thing about Esperanto is the intolerant righteousness of the people who espouse it. They are not content to enjoy their hobby. They want to force it on other people.
[...] about the Euroblogosphere by the University of Hamburg. Finally, you might like to watch the interview by Nicole Simon that sparked off this whole euroblog meet-up [...]
I totally agree with Xavier that the de-facto standard international language is English. It is a must that can not be elluded.
But this prevalence of English creates a language divide that impedes access to the knolewdge and discussions for the the majority of the population in non-native English speaking countries. Most people don’t have enough speak-write English skills to understand what’s going on and even less to participate in it. This is a dis-balance that biases the whole conversation. It gives an unfair advantage to native speakers (although a lot fare bad in their own languages) and also tends to have a majority of topics and views of interest to them.
The advantage of our English speaking is that we are contributing to the development of the language, which in this case can be called Pan-European English, where idioms and words from all around Europe are enriching it. Languages belong to those that use them.
My experience with Esperanto goes along the lines of what Steve Kaufmann has said. It is a fairy tale theory. I much prefer to use English.
Hi
Haha: there’s no media bias????????
Please please.
Let’s not support our case with generalization fallacies. Don’t know about rest of european countries…though news are ruled by transnational news agencies, but in Spain, at least, yes there’s a strong media bias and that’s why people jumped onto blogging, and that’s why some journalists left their posts to kick off their own digital media, which at the same time failed, because of lack of funding, wrong approach, paid content, etc…and because you can read the news filtered by the people you follow on twitter, blogs etc.
That’s why main newspapers are extremely worried about their demise and TV/Radio channels are always putting internet as evil. Now backed up by governmental decision of officially surveilling internet. Right now, the hottest topic on Spanish blogosphere is a new Manifesto in defense of the rights of people with internet…And that manifesto was only possible to the existence of a HUGE resilient Spanish speaking blogosphere.
Media bias? All newspapers and tv/radio stations in Spain are controlled by big media corp who are the loudspeakers of main political parties here. So please, next time, back up arguments with some evidence. And I’m sure same thing applies to rest of countries. Or you really think there’s no media bias in yours?
Problem is the lack of a common language. And that affects not only the blogosphere evolves but everything else related to the European sentiment. There are many other things, as important or more, we still have to agree upon or standardize..
PLus I do think there’s a European blogosphere: get each “”"local”"” blogosphere and sum them up.
Then it’s up to you to discover them or not.
And then the language again is an issue. But don’t expect or pretend that all ppl will blog in just one language. You blog bcs you want, not bcs of rules someone else sets for you. Besides, that will create (as is right now) an elitist divide bw those who can (blog in English) and those who can’t or won’t.
Cheers.
To anyone interested in this topic:
I wrote a post about Nicole Simon’s article here: http://joelitobarski.com/opinion/european-blogosphere/
And an online meet-up of European bloggers (many European politics bloggers – but all are welcome) will be held on December 3rd at 20:00 GMT on Skype.
Details are here: http://joelitobarski.com/news/euroblog-meetup-details/
Elena, already in one of my first comments up there I have said “the absence of a media bias, or the absence of an awareness about existing biases.”
And yes, I would argue that whatever bias media has in most European countries is still pretty far away from the twisted world of manipulation the US has to offer.
On a more general note, I find it a little much from you to stomp around here saying “So please, next time, back up arguments with some evidence.” Nicole gave an interview of a few minutes, how would you back up any claim in that format?
You have a point to make, fine – make it; and right you are. No reason to get grumpy or aggressive though, is there?
And if you must identify logical fallacies of other people, don’t make your own either – “Don’t know about rest of european countries…” and “I’m sure same thing applies to rest of countries.” do not go well together.
Hi Andreas & co
“You have a point to make, fine – make it; and right you are. No reason to get grumpy or aggressive though, is there?”
Didn’t mean to be aggressive or grumpy but surprised. very. Just so that you can picture it: if I had to say this to you F2F I wouldn’t be frowning but raising eyebrows and shaking head…Just to give it a non-verbal cue this sort of communication lacks. I hope it’s clearer now.
“And if you must identify logical fallacies of other people, don’t make your own either – “Don’t know about rest of european countries…” and “I’m sure same thing applies to rest of countries.” do not go well together.”
Granted.
You see, this topic is raised at a moment in which Spanish blogosphere is being especially active about our own internet rights towards a very biased media/government…so it’s kind of funny to hear that comparison bw US/Europe on the lack of media bias (and yes I’ve lived in the US).
What proves that what’s happening in the different European blogospheres can be easily reached but probably not understood bcs of the language barrier (and I still think that it’s an eurocrat u.to.pi.a to expect everyone will blog in English…you might end up missing great and/or important bloggers just bcs of that)
And nope, I think the reason why millions of blogs are out there is precisely because of the AWARENESS of an existing media bias…and the lack of a real participatory democracy. Therefore, I’m sorry but I still don’t buy the ‘absence of media bias or absence of awareness of media bias’
I still think the European blogosphere is there and it’s up to us to discover it.
And somehow comparisons to US scenario are ill-based to start with: it’s one big but one country after all. We are not.
Cheers.
Elena, thanks for picturing the raised eyebrow
My misperception stands corrected, and the limitation of long-distance e-communication has been illustrated once more.
It seems to me that many media biases in most European (Union) countries are topical and not necessarily a fundamental flaw. Internet rights is a topic that not only in Spain but also elsewhere has become an issue neglected by polities and media alike, and several blogospheres have risen magnificently to the occasion.
One of the main reasons for such an active EU-Geekosphere certainly is the total absence of European media and a predominant national bias in most European reporting in existing media.
And yes, using freedom of expression to fill the gaps caused by lack of a real participatory democracy, both on EU and European level as well as national and local level is definitely a strong motivator!
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In case you want to fight this like an ubber-intelligent boxing match, I have launched a poll in Just Tell Me Why.
Cast your vote with your comment and we will see if there is a KO or victory to the points
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